Smacking children

As I have said on GN before, I didn't have children so perhaps shouldn't be putting my oar in but I can't understand why anyone would want to inflict pain on someone they are supposed to love and protect.

I'm not saying that children shouldn't be disciplined but surely there must be other ways rather than hitting them. Doesn't it just tell them that violence is the answer to a problem.

Dsis and I were smacked as children, always there and then because our parents were exasperated, never in a 'wait' till your father gets home' way. It never actually hurt much and I was given to taking a fit of the giggles when it happened as Mum or Dad looked so silly and then the dog, sensing a bit of fun? or trying to protect his wee ones? would join in -total shambles. This must have driven them mad but they did not lose it completely as a result - usually sent me to my room until they/I had calmed down.

My 2 DDs would tell you that they were never smacked, which is not true. They were but obviously when they were too young to remember. I am not proud that the only persons I have ever hit in my entire life are my two much loved DDs and that was when they were only 2/3 years old. . It does mean that I understand that need to lash out in extremis, but am ashamed that the urge was controlled when faced with adult & child bullies, but not when tackling my own toddlers. Much better to pop them into cot or play pen, have a coffee and a ciggie, before resuming hostilities or more often finding that the situation had resolved itself.

My 3 DGC have never been smacked by anyone at home or when they are here. They do have their moments but my usually response is to give them a big bear hug, or tickle and kiss them until they are laughing. 2 of the DGC have been 'disciplined' using the naughty chair, where they would sit and sob for the stipulated time and then rejoin the company. DGD2, however, is a different kettle of fish, would refuse to sit in the chair, carry it away, stand on it, fling it about, whatever, meanwhile working herself into a gulping frenzy. Best with her is to swaddle her (even at 3 or 4) and hold her tight until she calms down and returns to her usual sunny self.

On the one hand I think that making smacking illegal sends out a message to GPs, Minders, Parents to find other means of resolving disputes - as teachers must do in schools. On the other hand it adds a huge burden of guilt to parents, who driven to distraction, lose control for a moment or two. A small smack does no good at all for adult or child but neither is it the end of the world.

Brilliant post Granny23.
I too that I smacked my own DCs at the 3-4 age, and I would never lift a finger to the DGCs.
But I can't see that criminalising parents is the right thing either.
And I feel disquiet that people in positions such as Maggie Atkinson holds, are referred to as Czars.

Brilliant post Granny23 and describes me smacking my children to a "T" and their (still) response to it. I'm not ashamed to say that I smacked them occasionally. It wasn't when they were very little, they were older. Anyway when they did sense which way things were heading, they could mostly outrun me, which was when the giggles from all of us would start. And I can still picture the dog thinking it was a game and getting into a dance of 'catch-my-tail' amidst the temporary mayhem.

Does Ms Atkinson have children I ask myself?

My youngest DGD is sometimes quite impossible - I have never dealt with a child like it. He truly is never never still - not for one second. He is up 3 or 4 times a night and his parents are on their knees. They need the patience of saints to deal with him during the day when they are exhausted from lack of sleep. I would not blame them if they were to smack him out of sheer exhaustion - I hope very much that they don't and do not think they will, but I would not be pointing the finger if it happened.

I can imagine plenty of people who would not be able to restrain themselves when he is being so demanding.

He does make up for it by being the most charming, affectionate and sociable little chap you could possibly imagine - but he is on the go and determined to have his own way - and don't we all hear about it!!

As someone has pointed out, there is a world of a difference between a short sharp slap in the heat of the moment and a calculatedly administered punishment.

In an ideal world no child would have a smack - it is not an ideal world - we can only do our very best.

Describes my smacking of my DD to a T too Granny23. I smacked her when she was VERY naughty (I regret it now). She always says to people now 'I was never smacked as a child' but she was occasionally. My DH never smacked her, it was only ever me. She and SIL have never smacked DGD.
I was brought up in a very violent household, we were also caned at school for even minor misdemeanors as were a lot of kids in the '50s. It's easy to hit someone who is smaller than you - I'm not sure what the answer is really.

Occasionally smacked the DDs when they were small and really annoying, but the thought of it makes me feel quite sick now. I would also hate to see the DGC being smacked by their parents - I even get upset if/when they are told off (the "crime" never seems as bad to a granny!). Times change fortunately and I hope we learn from our experiemces.

PS why does everybody have to be some kind of Czar/Tsar??? They were despotic, often cruel rulers and accountable to no one - is this the image we want??

I am like you Soutra. Sometimes when my DGD gets told off I think 'what on earth are you telling her off for that for'. However she is an extremely well behaved child so they are doing the right thing I'm sure.

DS and DIL tell me to feel free to put GDs on the naughty spot when staying with me, not b****y likely they bang holes in the wall while sitting there. They scream and whine while doing their time, it is torture to listen to.

As I child I was cruelly treated by both my mother and father.
My mother administered punishments to me, which varied - sometimes I was smacked round the back of the legs, which stung, but was soon forgotten. However, for more 'serious' misdeeds I would get locked in the coal house 'with the rats' - for about 15mins, in the dark. Those 15mins have been with me for the rest of my life in nightmares and the resulting claustrophobia.
I feel that if parent's are 'forbidden' to smack their children, they will resort to similar measures, which could 'scar' a child for life (like me). In the animal world the young ones are disciplined, usually by the 'mother', with a warning, then a quick cuff.

Me too,Goose. Many was the time I could not go swimming because of the bruises. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I understood where their anger was coming from.
What terrible damage people can do.

That's terrible Goose. The legacy some parents leave us with. The violence in our household was mainly directed towards my mother and my older sister. Once though, my father beat me up for 'lying to him' (I was 11). I had to have a week off school because of the cuts and bruises.

I was very lucky, and only smacked once, at age 14 when I was very rude to my father, who for the only time in the lives of his 3 daughters, was so shocked and hurt, he smacked my face. I honestly felt I'd pushed him too far, it never happened again, I know he was very distressed by his actions. I smacked my 8 year old on the hand, after a similar incident, and felt a real failure at the time. There are much better ways of helping children manage their feelings and behaviour, without resorting to slapping. As a cp coscial worker, I worked hard to help parents care for children without smacking. My view is we have existing policies and procedures for helping, or intervening in families without potentially criminalising loving parents, who hit out on a rare occasion. If bruises, cuts etc are left, that is not a smack from a loving parents, it is abusive. We already have laws that can punish where necessary, and child protection/safeguarding procedures to implement if children are at risk of abuse. I have mixed feelings though, as some people do need to get the message that hurting their children, and frightening them, is just not on.

There is a world of difference between an exasperated, and probably exhausted, parent giving a child a hasty slap and a parent inflicting a planned punishment, whether its 10 minutes in a scary cupboard or some form of corporal punishment. The first is simply a knee jerk reaction to a set of circumstances whilst the latter is more about power and cruelty.
I have tried never to hit my children (it happened once and I still bitterly regret it - we both ended up in tears cuddling each other and sobbing 'I'm sorry'.
If we ever had a problem I would say something along the lines of 'I'm cross and disappointed with you and really do not want to be near you for a moment' Sometimes it was yelled, I'm ashamed to say, but later it was communicated by a look - that I later found useful in running pre-school.

Children need guidelines and consistent boundaries suitable for their age in a loving secure environment, they need reminding what's acceptable and what's not, they need to learn how to fit into the rest of the world and if that can be done calmly and without too much yelling then so much the better.
Adults should never bully them, either physically or emotionally and they should never purposely inflict pain, either physical or emotional, they are after all, the grown-ups and are setting the example.

Hitting children is still legal in the UK. It is not legal to hit anyone else – that is assault.

Locking a child in a dark coal hole with the "rats" is just as much abuse as hitting the child. Both should be against the law. The former probably is.

I was smacked as a child, I can't remember if my brother was, I assume so.

I remember slapping DD round the face, she was about 15 at the time. Yes I regretted it and still do. I was really frustrated with her at the time. She showed no reaction at all, I was the one who walked away in tears!

DD has never smacked DGC they get shouted at occasionally but that's it.

I certainly don't agree with smacking but I do agree making it illegal would be impossible to police.

If it's okay for parents to hit children, perhaps we should restore the right of husbands to hit their wives.

Women aren't as defenceless as children though, absent.

I often felt like ( & occasionally did) giving a smack to my DDs and now to DGD1 but never ever felt that urge as a teacher..emotional investment is different!

Children can be bullied and hurt without being smacked!

If a child knows they are well loved by their parent/s and also know when they have crossed the boundary of expected good behaviour too far a quick and immediate sharp smack probably does no lasting harm! Children have a deep sense of right and wrong and if they know they have done wrong understand why they were punished!

Obviously bullying and abuse are always wrong as is a really hard smack or use of anything to hit with!

I did occasionally smack my two and they don't seem to have held it against me. My daughter has never smacked hers, but there have been times when I have felt that a quick smack would have been very effective and saved hours of argument.
My own mother had very little patience and smacked me quite a lot, but I never particularly resented it or felt the need to go and hit any one else because of it. The thing that worries me is that, while a smack can be quickly forgotten, some of the alternative punishments that people think up such as cancelling outings or taking away toys can be applied in a way that is down right vindictive and really distressing for the child.

Have to agree with absent I would never put up DH hitting me in any way (not that I think he ever would) so why would It be considered ok for him or I to have hit our children ? There are plenty of other ways to discipline them.

Too true ginny and what does it teach them but fear and that it is OK to hit someone smaller than themselves.

How can you tell a child not to hit someone and then hit the child yourself? It's assault pure and simple. My kids were born in the 1970s and smacking was beginning to be a no-no even then. I never smacked mine and none of my friends smacked theirs.
I remember my parents smacking me and it hurt. My father smacked me on the legs which brought up nasty red welts - he was quite proud of those and pointed them out to people. My mother used a black clothes brush on my bottom - again really painful. I came from a comfortable middle class family and as far as I knew most children were smacked.
There is no good reason to smack a child, not one. I'm sure people will say 'well I was smacked and it didn't hurt me' Well it did.

I was smacked regularly by my mother who had a terrible temper. As she was often angry I learnt at an early age to appease her and have rarely allowed myself to be angry in my adult life I have never smacked my children I believe all it teaches them is that adults have more power and are bigger and can do what they like. If you smack children you have lost control. My husband smacked and we had many rows because I didn't agree with it. My children did without things for a short while eg favourite tv programme (no dark cupboards). Social services will investigate hitting if they are concerned at the level of it , it is frowned upon by them for you to hit your child it is a form of assault. I appreciate parents can be at their wits end sometimes but we should remember we are the adult and behave like one.