Imagine Boris saying this…

I heard that Pg and couldn't believe he actually said it.

It’s true though. I managed A&E at one time, and on Friday and Saturday nights particularly it was sad to see how many people came to A&E because they had drunk way over the safe levels. Sometimes they had minor injuries too, but very often they had just passed out due to the effects of alcohol.

A brave thing to say and sadly not wide of the mark.

I don’t doubt your or Drakefords superior knowledge on this subject Casdon (well maybe his, methinks he’s teetotal so has another axe to grind)!

Actually my point was in the title of the thread rather than his total lack of accountability for the dire state of the Welsh NHS - we all know the Tories get crucified in England for less!

To be fair, he was talking about waiting time targets in hospital A&E departments.

The target is that 95% of patients should spend less than four hours from arrival until admission, transfer or discharge.

What he said was that "seven out of ten people who turn up at an A&E department in Cardiff will be there because alcohol has played a part in them arriving there on a Friday or a Saturday night.”

If someone is so drunk that they "cannot sensibly be talked to for hours” and have to sit and sober up that will skew the performance numbers.

I understand where he is coming from. Occasionally, I have to be admitted to hospital for IV drug treatment but the system will not allow my consultant to have me admitted directly. I have to go via A&E, be triaged, blood-tested, cannula inserted then wait for a bed on the specialist ward to become free. Sometimes it a very long wait - 12 hours on one occasion and hellish come Friday night. However ill I feel, I try to wait until any other day but Friday or Saturday.

It shouldn’t be this way that someone genuinely ill is reluctant to go to A&E because it is overrun with drunks.

Pantglas2

I don’t doubt your or Drakefords superior knowledge on this subject Casdon (well maybe his, methinks he’s teetotal so has another axe to grind)!

Actually my point was in the title of the thread rather than his total lack of accountability for the dire state of the Welsh NHS - we all know the Tories get crucified in England for less!

Trouble is Pantglas having seen Boris at that airport in Italy after his meeting with Lebedev, you could imagine he’d had personal experience, so it would be difficult to take him seriously, whereas Mark Drakeford looks like he’d maybe partake of a small sherry at Christmas.
Sadly though alcohol is still a major issue for A&E departments (UK wide), so on that particular point, regardless of any other NHS concerns, Drakeford was right.

It was brave of Drakeford but pretty accurate. I well remember being struck by the powerful miasma of booze that hit me when I was called to A&E when DS was taken there after he was beaten up by drunken yobs.

Before this gets into a Get-out-of-jail-free card for Drakeford on the the Cardiff Weekend drunks scene, I and a colleague sat for 4 hours three times in a year at Glan Clwyd in north Wales on a midweek afternoon many moons ago, pre COVID!

His refusal to acknowledge that his, and decades of previous Labour, mis administration of the Welsh NHS played no small part in the absolute shambles we tolerate in north Wales in particular is a disgrace.

Again, imagine Boris (or Truss/Sunak, take your pick) or the Sun newspaper making this statement in Liverpool…

Maybe you picked the wrong example? I do think if Sunak said the same thing that Drakeford did, people would be as likely to listen to him too, as a sober individual, whereas Boris’ antics mean he is seen as forever half cut.

I think actually that the public does know what a huge issue alcohol is for A&E departments, maybe not so much on midweek afternoons (although we did get the local alcoholics coming in for a warm having been picked up collapsed in town), but certainly on the weekends. I’m not exonerating Drakeford or anybody else for the state of the NHS, just praying it’s not too late to get it back on its feet - ideally the drunks will be back on theirs too, but I don’t think any government will be able to resolve that one.

Three examples Casdon and you manage to ignore the two that would illustrate my point…Rishi’s religion didn’t get him out of the Birthday Binge with Boris did it?

I wish he'd been sitting in a packed Welsh A&E with DH and me (13 hours, fast-tracked). I'm sure there were people there who could have been dealt with elsewhere and others with MH problems. One man was abusive but I don't think he was drunk, he was a regular with MH problems.
I'm sure it happens; the Consultant said some were there were "the regulars" but most people have genuine reasons to be there.

Sitting in the MAU for 10 hours for assessments, I was told by some patients there that they'd been waiting in there, sleeping on bench seats, for 3 of days, waiting for a bed.

Superfluous of

Sunak was there, but I don’t think being caught did his personal reputation much harm did it, because you can tell he isn’t a party animal?
I don’t think it’s because Boris is a Tory that he’s universally castigated, it’s because through his behaviour he dug his own and the government’s grave, so deep that it’s now impossible for anybody to pull it back from the brink. For all Drakeford’s faults, he hasn’t pressed the self destruct button in the same way.

Callistemon21

I wish he'd been sitting in a packed Welsh A&E with DH and me (13 hours, fast-tracked). I'm sure there were people there who could have been dealt with elsewhere and others with MH problems. One man was abusive but I don't think he was drunk, he was a regular with MH problems.
I'm sure it happens; the Consultant said some were there were "the regulars" but most people have genuine reasons to be there.

Sitting in the MAU for 10 hours for assessments, I was told by some patients there that they'd been waiting in there, sleeping on bench seats, for 3 of days, waiting for a bed.

Yes, mental health issues are another big issue for A&E staff, very time consuming and with no immediate support from mental health services, which are also severely stretched. Add to that no acute beds for admissions, and a high level of abuse of staff by patients and relatives/friends, and there’s a perfect storm. I don’t know how the staff or the patients who are waiting with serious conditions cope with it.

Maybe not in your circles Casdon.

However up here in farming circles he’s persona non grata after turning up at Builth to tell our farmers that he needed to justify agricultural grants to his Bangladeshi Cardiff Taxi driver…who probably benefited from universal credit due to low pay! Lawdy!

I live in rural Powys Pantglas2, very close to Builth actually, so I’m not sure what circles you think I’m in!

Pantglas2

Maybe not in your circles Casdon.

However up here in farming circles he’s persona non grata after turning up at Builth to tell our farmers that he needed to justify agricultural grants to his Bangladeshi Cardiff Taxi driver…who probably benefited from universal credit due to low pay! Lawdy!

To be fair, there aren't many politicians who understand farming or even realise that without farmers we won't eat.

And your thoughts on my second paragraph - after due research of course in case you missed the hoo-ha it caused first time round…

Regardless, IMO the man (and his party) is as big a disgrace in Wales as the Tories have been in England!

My vote in the election this year will be wasted again as we veer from Tory to Labour in my constituency and my liberal leanings count for nowt.

However I look forward to a UK Labour government to immediately right all the wrongs of the last 14 years. I want no talk of costings because we’re a sovereign currency and can issue money to pay for all that we need - happy days eh?

And your thoughts on my second paragraph

🤔

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

What really,really annoys me is that apparently they fast track drug affected people because they cause trouble and shout and carry on in the E.D. I spoke to a nurse and she is appalled by this but they can’t find another way . These people upset everyone so they are bundled through ASAP. The rest of us have to wait and wait and wait.

Pantglas2

And your thoughts on my second paragraph - after due research of course in case you missed the hoo-ha it caused first time round…

Regardless, IMO the man (and his party) is as big a disgrace in Wales as the Tories have been in England!

My vote in the election this year will be wasted again as we veer from Tory to Labour in my constituency and my liberal leanings count for nowt.

However I look forward to a UK Labour government to immediately right all the wrongs of the last 14 years. I want no talk of costings because we’re a sovereign currency and can issue money to pay for all that we need - happy days eh?

My thoughts on your second paragraph Panyglas2 is that if the taxi driver in Cardiff is a Welsh citizen, which presumably he is, then he has to be considered too when making policies for Wales. Farming is massively important to the economy, but it’s not the only consideration is it - and I know from experience that farmers are as bitterly resentful of money being spent on anything in Cardiff as I have no doubt Cardiff residents are of farming subsidies. I think part of Drakeford’s issue has been that he is sometimes too honest, rather than playing to his audience.

I know that the last time DH was admitted he spent a sleepless night on an assessment ward while an old man with dementia yelled all night. Very disruptive but there was literally nowhere else for him to go.

Farming is massively important to the economy, but it’s not the only consideration is it

Well, politicians don't seem to realise it is vital.

No Farmers, No Food.

When I worked for the NHS a Polish nurse told me that in her home town, drink related crime had got out of hand and their Emergency departments were also full of drunk people causing trouble to others. In answer to this they erected a metal unit in the town where intoxicated people were put to sober up. Anyone needing medical help were taken to hospital but those who had just drunk too much were left there until the next morning and had to pay for the privilege.