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DIL ESTRANGEMENT

(35 Posts)
Win15 Mon 31-Oct-22 00:35:47

I did post this situation a few weeks ago, but took it off right away. I’m really at a loss what to do about this. I documented my son’s life since birth to eighteen. I’m a somewhat professional photographer; the camera I use is a Mamiya professional roll film camera. The roll film allows you to blow up photos wall size without losing any rosolution. Here’s the problem: I went through a divorce four years ago. I took all the photos; not my spouse. He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work. I have been trying to get them back for the past four years. My DIL got them in her hands telling him she was going to do a family project. He gave them to her, but said he wanted them back. She told me she had them, but was going to keep them because they are of her husband (my son). I paid thousands of dollars in film, professional processing, etc. These photos were sent out to high/end film processors-no Walmarts! They are like high end wedding photos. I asked her if I could have them back. That I would make copies of some that are her favorite. She won’t budge. She said she has every right to keep them. She has them in a hidden location, even. I thought, okay, well at least they will be safe…but if they break up, they will go with her. I really want them back. They are my memories of him growing up. I have always been loving to her, and never challenged her…but I want them. I invested years in these beautiful photos. She is a Fundamentalist Christian and her and her family have very strict beliefs and values about husbands obeying wives. He was raised Catholic, but has taken her religion. She is close to her family, but has always excluded my ex-spouse and I because we are divorced, and he came out as gay. She says he’s a sinner. What course of action can I take?

OnwardandUpward Thu 03-Nov-22 08:44:06

The only other way you might be able to get to her if she is a fundamental Christian is remind her that the ten commandmends say "do not steal". You might be able to speak to people who know her, like a minister, to see if they will mediate but it probably wont be good for relationships, sadly.

The way she is treating you for being divorced is digusting. Did she expect you to stay with a gay man? Judegemental people are the worst hypocrites!

Redhead56 Tue 01-Nov-22 00:35:41

This is not a police matter it is civil no matter where it is see a solicitor.

welbeck Tue 01-Nov-22 00:29:28

consult a lawyer.
and/ or go to the minister of her church and ask him/her to mediate.
good luck.

VioletSky Mon 31-Oct-22 23:33:48

I agree, if property is stolen it really is a police matter to sort out

The only caveat is that it will not help the relationship

Probably it would be better to fix the relationship and get access to the photos that way

OnwardandUpward Mon 31-Oct-22 19:47:04

I sometimes get my husband to say things for me that I find difficult, so yes I do agree VS that happens. I've also helped him with things with his Mum when he struggled. She's lovely, but some things he just finds hard.

As far as the photos are concerned, I think the DiL is in the wrong. She's acting judgemental, entitled and is actually stealing. The photos are the legal property of the person who took them because of copyright law, unless they had sold or given them away, which they haven't.

VioletSky Mon 31-Oct-22 17:36:01

I've done worse, I stole a cat from my MIL.

Well sort of

It was my husbands cat growing up and and she sent him to us for a bit to look after while she couldn't.

Husband wanted to keep him and the cat had a better life with us but he couldn't deal with his mum

So I told her she couldn't have him back.

Sometimes people aren't good at talking to their own mums so the partner steps in.

Doesn't mean I am in control here, I just did what he needed

Lathyrus Mon 31-Oct-22 16:26:58

“Wives submit to your husbands as unto the Lord…as the church is subject unto Christ so let wives be subject unto their husbands in everything.” Ephesians 5:22, 24.

“Wives submit yourselves unto your husbands as it is fit in the Lord” Colossians 3:18

You’ve got it the wrong way round OP.

Callistemon21 Mon 31-Oct-22 16:16:41

Norah

Callistemon21

He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work

"I should have changed that stupid lock, I should have made you leave your key"

grin grin grin

It's a salutary tale ☹

Norah Mon 31-Oct-22 16:10:48

Callistemon21

^He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work^

"I should have changed that stupid lock, I should have made you leave your key"

grin grin grin

Norah Mon 31-Oct-22 16:08:41

Smileless I answered the question what course of action can I take?

OP has no recourse with excluded dil to pics "stolen" by xH.

I believe a solicitor would report same, or there'd be a legal demand.

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 15:56:48

But the borrower isn't giving them back to the person she borrowed them from is she Norah. "She told me she had them but is going to keep them because they are of her husband".

Callistemon21 Mon 31-Oct-22 15:48:58

He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work

"I should have changed that stupid lock, I should have made you leave your key"

Norah Mon 31-Oct-22 15:47:26

Win15 She is close to her family, but has always excluded my ex-spouse and I because we are divorced, and he came out as gay.

How would an "excluded mil" (her words) know or presume what her mil (she excludes her mil) thinks? Borrower gives back to the person borrowed from. Borrower has no real reason to believe the pics stolen.

OP can deal with xH. Deal without using others as go-between.

Callistemon21 Mon 31-Oct-22 15:46:13

VioletSky

I don't really understand what has happened here.

Your ex rook the photos

DIL managed to get them from him

If something was stolen from you it should be reported to the police

Do you have the ability to reprint them?

Have you asked your son about them? Maybe he actually does want to keep the images of himself in which case, it's between you and him

I'm having trouble keeping up, too.

It is stolen property, yes.

Perhaps you could reprint your favourite ones, Win and make an album or get together with your ex-DH and your DS &DIL and share them all out?
Better to have just a few photos and still see your family than risk having just photos to look at because you never see the family.

I've got boxes of photos, school photos, graduation photos, family snaps etc and I'd like to declutter now but my DC won't take them (yet!).

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 15:00:28

Presumably as Win had been trying to get the photo's back from her ex for 4 years, her d.i.l. knew how much they meant to her and how badly she wanted them back, so to get her hands on them and refuse to give them back to her m.i.l. is particularly unkind.

I don't agree she should return them to her f.i.l., the man she regards as a sinner because he's gay, as he shouldn't have taken them in the first place.

NotSpaghetti Mon 31-Oct-22 14:39:35

Hithere

In the US, professional photographers mostly sign off the rights of the pictures to the customer - the photographer does not owe them

Some photographers do not do it but as adults, the customers choose to waive it

Did this son have a choice about it?

I think this is factually incorrect.
Copyright laws in America are such that legally the person who took the photo (I think the law calls it "pushing the button") automatically owns the copyright for their own lifetime plus 70 years. This copyright applies if any work is shown/uploaded or whatever.
The alternative to this is to take photos as a “work-for-hire” photographer where the photographer signs over the photos to another person. If you are a "staff" photographer working for a newspaper you will probably have signed an agreement like this.
Even wedding photographers don't usually sign this kind of agreement but many allow you to use/ reproduce them for an (additional) fee. Some now roll the fee into a "package" price.

In a family situation I suppose legally if you take the image it is yours. I would not think this is a healthy route to go down though.

VioletSky Mon 31-Oct-22 14:39:30

I don't really understand what has happened here.

Your ex rook the photos

DIL managed to get them from him

If something was stolen from you it should be reported to the police

Do you have the ability to reprint them?

Have you asked your son about them? Maybe he actually does want to keep the images of himself in which case, it's between you and him

Norah Mon 31-Oct-22 14:34:37

Win15 I went through a divorce four years ago. I took all the photos; not my spouse. He stole them (six boxes full) out of our house one day when I was at work. I have been trying to get them back for the past four years. My DIL got them in her hands telling him she was going to do a family project. He gave them to her, but said he wanted them back. She told me she had them, but was going to keep them because they are of her husband (my son).

Appears your dil owes them back to your xH, he gave her the pics and said he wanted them back. Between you and him how the 2 of you sort photos, after she returns photos.

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 14:21:25

No one said he did belong to the OP Hithere; he doesn't belong to his wife either and neither does his image.

This isn't about the ownership of a person or an image, it's about photographs originally stolen from the OP, then 'borrowed' from the original thief by the OP's d.i.l. who refuses to give them back.

Hithere Mon 31-Oct-22 14:13:02

Her son is a person with the right to his own image, he doesnt belong to the op

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 14:09:43

Win is not a customer, she took the photo's herself and has not signed off her rights of ownership either to her ex husband, who stole them from her, or to her d.i.l. who by refusing to give them back has also stolen them.

Hithere Mon 31-Oct-22 13:35:15

In the US, professional photographers mostly sign off the rights of the pictures to the customer - the photographer does not owe them

Some photographers do not do it but as adults, the customers choose to waive it

Did this son have a choice about it?

OnwardandUpward Mon 31-Oct-22 12:41:28

They are legally your photos. I agree with Smileless to ask to make copies. I don't see how she can refuse , reasonably. I don't think there are any denominations that can support taking something as your own and not sharing it.

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 11:30:44

Meant to add Good Luck.

Smileless2012 Mon 31-Oct-22 11:30:11

Husbands obeying their wives has nothing to do with Christianity, fundamentalist or otherwise.

As for the photographs, if you've explained to your son how important they are to you, why hasn't he intervened? They do not belong to your d.i.l. so she has no right to keep them.

Having copies made so you, your ex H and you d.i.l. all have them is an excellent idea and is perhaps the best way forward, so I would tell her you want them back so this can be arranged.