So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?

So I don't understand why people don't 'get' that this is a philosophical discussion about ideology

Perhaps because it wasn't presented as philosophical discussion in the OP?

So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?
It seems as if this is the plan

If it is just ponderings by the OP then that wasn't clear.

I've seen part of Government reports recently bu not seen this one.

We asked for a philosophy forum but GNHQ turned the idea down.

Callistemon21

^So I don't understand why people don't 'get' that this is a philosophical discussion about ideology^

Perhaps because it wasn't presented as philosophical discussion in the OP?

So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?
It seems as if this is the plan

If it is just ponderings by the OP then that wasn't clear.

I've seen part of Government reports recently bu not seen this one.

We asked for a philosophy forum but GNHQ turned the idea down.

OK - strictly speaking, it wasn't clear. But a few posts later DaisyAnne expanded further. At which point I think it became obvious that this was one of those "what-do-you-think?" postings.

I have also had discussions with friends etc where one or two individuals have pondered this, some of whom had the benefit of 'free' tertiary education (me included).

I admit to not having actually read any government reports on education, apart from the one on 'Education Investment Areas' where there is mention of 'levelling up' which "will mean that every young person in England will have access to regular clubs and activities, adventures away from home and volunteering opportunities by 2025." All well and good - so maybe the fears are groundless, and I certainly understand the need to concentrate of reading / literacy skills without which other subjects become rather closed shops.

However, the questions are still there because this is a government which believes in 'small state' whether under Johnson or anyone else (this isn't 'Boris Bashing' - he's not responsible for previous government's dictums on education).

... interesting to wonder why a 'philosophy' forum was turned down. Maybe GNHQ think Politics, Religion and even "Chat" forums cover it - which maybe they do?

Thank you Dickens. I don't think it mattered how much I clarified, some posters just didn't want to know. I notice Callistemon21 edited what she showed as a quote from me without making the edit clear. Interestingly, the bit she took out did give more of an idea that I was going with the wider look at this government's intentions and how it could affect education.

It was obviously a subject some could not bring themselves to discuss. I wonder why?

I'm here, no need to chat behind my back!

Actually, DaisyAnne, I saw a snippet of a Government report recently and the suggestions in it were very odd - not about education though.

DaisyAnne

Thank you Dickens. I don't think it mattered how much I clarified, some posters just didn't want to know. I notice Callistemon21 edited what she showed as a quote from me without making the edit clear. Interestingly, the bit she took out did give more of an idea that I was going with the wider look at this government's intentions and how it could affect education.

It was obviously a subject some could not bring themselves to discuss. I wonder why?

It was obviously a subject some could not bring themselves to discuss.

TBH I think some voted for this current government in good faith. For a 'natural' Tory-voter, there was no reason not to on the face of it. Boris Johnson was very gung-ho and upbeat, the Lib-Dems were lacklustre and Corbyn was considered too far left (amongst other things). I think the result was inevitable.

... and I think there might be quite a few - well, I know some anyway - Tory voters who are, to say the least, disappointed with the way the government has performed under Johnson, and with the man himself.

Whilst I'm a dedicated Remainer, I can still see the appeal of Brexit and, let's face it, the EU is far from perfect in the way it functions. But I don't want to delve into the Brexit / Remain argument.

I do believe that the trajectory the government has taken is not necessarily the one its supporters hoped for - or some, many - I dunno how many. Did they pay attention to the small-print, do any of us? I was 'seduced' by Corbyn's "for the many not the few" but ultimately could not bring myself to vote for him for various reasons. I don't think all Tory voters are nasty people who are going to defend him come what may, he made 'promises' he hasn't kept, and under his leadership many of his supporters are going to be in dire straits... I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that, and they are probably feeling a tad reflective and subdued. I'm deliberately leaving out the 'Russian connection' not ignoring it, because this is about ideology - the ideology of market-driven, right-wing, libertarian beliefs / principles. This is not the Tory party of old where there could be some common ground, if only a tad, between left and right, and where the needs and welfare of the country as a whole were, or seemed to be, the prime concern.

All that you fear, I fear. I think it's axiomatic that we are headed for the dystopian world of Ayn Rand... but slowly, by stealth.

As for Johnson, I leave you with this description made by Rand about someone she admired greatly, almost obsessively - without mentioning who he was -

"Other people do not exist for him, and he does not see why they should.

(He) had "no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realize and feel 'other people.'"

I think that's a fair description of our PM.

Amazing posts Dickens.

Your post is a reflection of my views, my interest in "for the many, not the few, only to realise the weakness in the man and in the views of those supporting him. I had the same questioning over Brexit. Just how good is it; just how flawed?

Your summary of the New Right explains why, if people look at it carefully, they would destroy what we have believed is our natural way of living. It is most certainly not the Tory party many don't think twice about supporting. Anecdotal support for this. I have several friends who are as right of centre as I am left of centre i.e., not a lot. They will almost certainly always have voted Conservative. We now talk about the "Johnson Government" not the "Conservatives". We still have a common ground between us but this government is an elephant in the conversation. I have to say that I believe that, given the same sort of majority, Jeremy Corbyn in power would, almost certainly, scare me just as much.

A great post Dickens. You write so well and managed to both sooth and spark my thinking . Thankyou. I hope everyone else hasn't given up and can come back and give their thoughts.

DaisyAnne

Your post is a reflection of my views, my interest in "for the many, not the few, only to realise the weakness in the man and in the views of those supporting him. I had the same questioning over Brexit. Just how good is it; just how flawed?

Your summary of the New Right explains why, if people look at it carefully, they would destroy what we have believed is our natural way of living. It is most certainly not the Tory party many don't think twice about supporting. Anecdotal support for this. I have several friends who are as right of centre as I am left of centre i.e., not a lot. They will almost certainly always have voted Conservative. We now talk about the "Johnson Government" not the "Conservatives". We still have a common ground between us but this government is an elephant in the conversation. I have to say that I believe that, given the same sort of majority, Jeremy Corbyn in power would, almost certainly, scare me just as much.

A great post Dickens. You write so well and managed to both sooth and spark my thinking . Thankyou. I hope everyone else hasn't given up and can come back and give their thoughts.

I think we both share the same philosophy.

I feel politically homeless. Because I can see the merits of individualism, but also of collectivism, and I don't want the extremes of either.

I've been told many times there is no middle-ground in politics, but I don't think that's true. Very generally speaking, I think that is where the British public would, on the whole, prefer to be.

I, too, hope others join in and continue this thread... looking at the political landscape through other people's eyes is the only way to gauge the nature of where we might be headed. Many among us GN'ers know of a different world, the world of post-war social and economic improvement to the lives of the ordinary citizen, something subsequent generations have not experienced.

we need a better parliamentary system one where we have better representation of our communities and party politics needs to be done away with imo. Even at council level it is only the Independent councillors who just do not tow the party line. It is