So is the idea now that the state just provides for skills in reading, writing and arithmetic for free?

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnne

GrannyGravy13

I may be stating there obvious, but there has been a worldwide pandemic for two years which has affected both schools teaching capabilities and children mental health, have the GLA assessments taken this into account?

I am not surprised that there has been as you put it bare bone teaching to pass exams what was the alternative? I don’t think anyone would have been happy for students to have to repeat the last two years of schooling.

As we are slowly returning to normal so should education, with hopefully catch-up for those off school for whatever reason, as it was previously.

I don't think these changes are the only choice. It is always a choice. Government policy seems to be following the far-right playbook of dismantling the state just as they said they would if we voted for them. I imagine those defending this wanted that and voted for the government to get a "small state".

What I wondered was if individuals are still happy with the move in this direction.

I can only post of what I know and that is that our GC are still receiving a full and rounded education including Art, Geography, History, Drama etc..

This is from Nursery through to Yr.9 over four different schools, none of which are Private.

Perhaps this scenario is not England wide (education is devolved and not controlled by Westminster)?

I appreciate this is what you see GrannyGravy and, at the moment, I am sure this paints an accurate picture. What I am looking at is more a case of what is planned for and we will rapidly move towards.

Anyone got a crystal ball?

Maybe the thought is to make sure the basics are taught properly and sensibly (fronted adverbials anyone ? Not necessary). However that does not necessarily mean they plan to exclude history geography art science.

I am aware that this government's stated aims before the last election were for a "small government. That must mean the collapse of government-driven help and structure. However, it seemed to me to be beginning to bite. We have seen dentistry returning to a mainly private organisation. It looks as if the government intends to push GPs in the same direction. I wondered if the next project will be/is schools. (*DaisyAnne*)

... "small government" means "small State" and small State will do exactly what it says on the tin. This is libertarian capitalism, where the market decides - no government intervention in the economy. Right-wing libertarians see the State as a threat to liberty. And that is the government we have got. Ultimately, yes, I believe Health and Education will become commodities under this government. They are weaning us slowly - partly I suspect because many of their supporters are not the demographic that will not reap the benefits, and it takes time to withdraw the government support and infrastructure of the services it provides. It cannot overnight leave many of its citizens destitute on the street so to speak - there would be riots - so a gradual transfer to the private sector will take time.

Whether this government is under the leadership of Johnson or any other RW libertarian makes no difference. We are following the American model, with very basic State provision for the impoverished. Probably the worst affected will be those who are now 'just about managing' (Theresa May).

I believe it's on the cards and I have no doubt that this where we are heading. I will not even bother to argue the rights or wrongs because it's pointless. Those that believe people should "look after themselves and not expect the State to coddle them" will love it - unless fate places them unexpectedly in the category of those needing healthcare that they can't afford. Those who want a more equitable and egalitarian society will oppose it. But it's going to happen, and with our FPTP voting system, it won't make any difference if the majority don't support it - enough do to make it happen. And the RW media know how to manipulate our fears and insecurities.

Let's see how the "levelling up" goes for people in North and the Midlands... until it meets the antagonism of those in the more prosperous South. It can't be done on the cheap... it's all a bit indeterminate at the moment...

I'm not even bitter about it - after years of Labour infighting and some of the more bizarre attitudes of the far left (Momentum?)... it's inevitable. The middle-ground is lost, it might have been a safer place, but it's now occupied by the Left and the Right.

My DD at her Junior school was not taught PE, no Net ball or anything like that, School didn't believe in Competitive sports. At senior School no Home Economics but could do Japanese.
My DS who is now 34 could not do History and Geography at GCSE had to choose which one , but could and did French and Spanish GCSE.

DaisyAnne are you making the assumption that the Conservatives will form the next Government?

Or are you suggesting that this will happen even if Labour win?

There has been a decline in the number of children taking arts-based subjects and this looks set to continue.
www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/tate-warning-over-decline-in-arts-education/
Arts subjects are only compulsory from 5-14 and many schools strictly limit the time once the child embarks on examnation years.
As for the arts in primary education.A report from the Fabian society begins
There has been a dramatic decline in both the quantity and quality of arts education in primary schools in England. Teachers believe they do not have the resources and skills to deliver lessons con- taining art and design, music, drama and dance, and they feel that their school does not prioritise learning in these areas. This narrowing of access risks widening existing inequalities in access to the arts and limits the horizons of young people.
You can read it here fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FS-Primary-Colours-Report-WEB-FINAL.pdf
What is absolutely certain is that it won't be the children of the better off who will have access to private lessons who will suffer most.

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

What you will find when pupils reach secondary school is that some subjects have a higher priority than others because state schools (not private schools bizarrely) are graded according to something called Progress 8. Some subjects count more than others.

If a school is quite weak academically, it will push maths, English and science perhaps by having more curriculum time because they're worth more points. This means that other subjects can get pushed aside and not have enough curriculum time to be taught properly.

We are heading back to the days when elementary schools and secondary moderns concentrated on the "basics", while grammar schools, private schools and comprehensives with a high academic intake are able to offer more "liberal" subjects such as two or more foreign languages plus geography and history and maybe Latin.

GrannyGravy13

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

Unfortunately, music festivals and science fairs don't guarantee quality.

Pupils have always had to make choices at GCSE level because of timetabling constraints.
When I was teaching (ten years ago) and as far as I am aware, now, pupils had to be taught netball, rounders, hockey, cricket, football, rugby and short tennis. Also swimming, gymnastics and dance. There are after school clubs for running, volleyball and five a side. Another village school.

Teachers believe they do not have the resources and skills to deliver lessons containing art and design, music, drama and dance, and they feel that their school does not prioritise learning in these areas.
That comes from teachers, and I would hazard a guess that it is from the ones who do a PGCE, which is nine months training maximum . Quite impossible to pick up all the necessary knowledge in such a short time, but I covered all those areas in my three year training.

Most primary school teachers still do three years' training.

eazybee This is about more than timetable constraints at GCSE. It's about secondary schools with weak pupils not offering a full range of subjects and restricting, for example, the number of foreign languages pupils can study. In some cases, weak pupils aren't allowed to a foreign language at all and are directed to maths, English and science because it looks better in the school's results. This is how it was years ago. Weaker pupils did the "essential" subjects (probably including cooking, needlework and woodwork), while those who were considered brighter had a richer curriculum.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

In that case our GC must be the exception trisher because in the space of one week (Wednesday to Wednesday) our 7yr old GC will have participated in an inter-schools football tournament (in school time) a music festival along with four other schools at local large church (in school time) and the schools science fair (after school)

This is a small state primary school in a commuter belt village

Unfortunately, music festivals and science fairs don't guarantee quality.

We shall have to disagree on that.

Catching a child’s imagination and allowing them to broaden their horizons is in my option a good thing.

What is the point of teaching children all the really educational and educating subjects if they cannot benefit from it because they cannot read or write fluently and have no sure grasp of numeracy?

As others have said, the disruption caused to children's education by COVID has been immense and it is the most disadvantaged children have suffered most. So the most important thing in education at the moment is to make sure that these children get all the help and attention they need to get their basic skills up to the expected standard so that they can benefit from the wide range of subjects and broader education so many school offers.

I did not hear the original interview but reading what she has reported in this thread, I think her interpreation of it is perverse.

Opinion not option, flipping autocorrect…

Good post Dickens

trisher i do not know where you live but because my DGD's excellent state primary school had a high proportion of children from disadvantagd backgrounds, they received all kinds of extras in the drama and music line. Including being involved with the educational side of major theatre companies, including the Royal Shakespeare and a group of children from schools involved in this scheme, including a special school had the opportunity to visit Stratford upon Avon and appear in a production at the Other Place.

Their secondary school, also a state school, specialises in the performing arts and children from the school performed with professional orchestra and children from, again a wide range of schools across the region.

My grandchildren, entirely state educated in schools that are not nice schools in nice areas, have been offered opportunities to do all kinds of creative activities that leave both myself and my children envious as they are being offered so much that we could not even dream of.

M0nica

What is the point of teaching children all the really educational and educating subjects if they cannot benefit from it because they cannot read or write fluently and have no sure grasp of numeracy?

As others have said, the disruption caused to children's education by COVID has been immense and it is the most disadvantaged children have suffered most. So the most important thing in education at the moment is to make sure that these children get all the help and attention they need to get their basic skills up to the expected standard so that they can benefit from the wide range of subjects and broader education so many school offers.

I did not hear the original interview but reading what she has reported in this thread, I think her interpreation of it is perverse.

The point is that arts subjects develop areas of the brain and thought processes which are valuable in everyday life, provide stimuli which encourage the development of those basic skills and contribute to a child's well being.
The idea that a child needs to be able to read to appreciate language is manifestly wrong, children love word plays and puzzles long before they can read and write and a child who has dificulties in those areas may find release and a reason to go to school in music, art or dance lessons.

Trisher it is not a question of either or and I would include wordplay, and puzzles as well as singing games and a lot of the things you mention as part of teaching literacy, as do most teachers.

But when many children today are still leaving school functionally illiterate. Cut off from society, work and any chance of improving thir circumstances. I know where my priorities out.

Hanger down on their literacy etc so that they catch up with their contemporaries as soon as possible then they can benefit from everything else that school has to offer.

M0nica

Trisher it is not a question of either or and I would include wordplay, and puzzles as well as singing games and a lot of the things you mention as part of teaching literacy, as do most teachers.

But when many children today are still leaving school functionally illiterate. Cut off from society, work and any chance of improving thir circumstances. I know where my priorities out.

Hanger down on their literacy etc so that they catch up with their contemporaries as soon as possible then they can benefit from everything else that school has to offer.

My DS left school a functional illiterate as you so thoughtfully term it. He dropped out at 14 because he couldn't stand the pressure or the lack of understanding. Literacy is no measure of intelligence. Nor is it a measure of ability or talent. It's a skill which is hard for some to master. Schools should be about educating the whole person because there are children for whom literacy is a real problem and trying to stuff it down their throat instead of offering them the opportunity to expand and develop skills in the arts or practical skills is actually counter-productive. It's the reason we have so many children dropping out or being excluded.

Lucca

I’m being dense but what is this referring to ?

Me too?
Is it a Government report (there have been some very odd ones lately which have been brought to my notice).

Does that mean my DGC won't have to learn Welsh?

Not much chance of that Callistemon ?

They do enjoy it!

I thought education was devolved so it’s all down to your First Ministers in Wales, N.Ireland and Scotland.

Mine did too.