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At last ... a plan. Gordon Brown's constitutional review revealed

(104 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 12:29:34

I would be grateful for any links to articles and to the review itself - I can't find it.

After 12 years of no plans, it will be interesting to see what the Labour Party decides to use from this.

Ashcombe Mon 05-Dec-22 12:34:13

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/04/labour-unveils-overhaul-constitution-replace-houes-of-lords

Ashcombe Mon 05-Dec-22 12:35:44

This is more recent:-

www.politics.co.uk/news-feature/2022/12/01/starmers-constitutional-overhaul-courtesy-of-gordon-brown/

Urmstongran Mon 05-Dec-22 12:46:20

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

varian Mon 05-Dec-22 12:51:02

The most important constitutional reform, which was supported by a huge majority at this years Labour Party conference is to change the way we elect our government to become a true democracy, not a sham democracy like Belarus, the only other European country to use First Padst The Post.

Do Labour intend to transform the UK into a democracy - where a government can only be elected by a Majority of those who vote?

I haven't seen any mention of changing the voting system from FPTP to PR.

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:15:25

I don't think it would stop us changing the way we elect our government and may even be a way into PR varian. It could be used for the election of the new Upper House in the first instance.

I also think there is a way to go until Labour has decided what, of the paper, they are going to go forward with. Personally, I am still trying to track the paper down so I can read it and will try not to form views until I have done that and read what Labour, as a party, has to say about it.

Casdon Mon 05-Dec-22 13:15:54

Urmstongran

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

Give us a few examples?

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:16:42

Thank you Ashcombe smile

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:23:50

Casdon

Urmstongran

There's never been a problem that Gordon Brown's pondering couldn't make worse...

Give us a few examples?

I know you just replied Casdon but is it really worth bothering with someone quoting a very old meme, enticing others to have yet another brawl.

It would be really nice to keep this factual at least until we know what is being said. How about UG starting another thread for the usual out of date brawling?

I, for one, would be very grateful.

Casdon Mon 05-Dec-22 13:35:54

Your wish won’t come true DaisyAnne, but you can try.
Here’s the latest I’ve seen.
news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-pledges-to-abolish-house-of-lords-in-first-term-as-prime-minister-12762032
I don’t think pondering is what Gordon Brown has been doing, for what it’s worth.

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:42:02

No, I agree. Would that I had his academic talent.

Thank you for the link smile

MaizieD Mon 05-Dec-22 13:46:11

I think this might be the actual report:

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf

155 pages long. Enjoy...

volver Mon 05-Dec-22 13:46:30

I think we should be careful about thinking that Sir Keir has pledged to abolish the HoL in his first term.

Sir Keir told BBC Breakfast the unelected second chamber was "indefensible", and added that a Labour government would abolish it and replace it with an elected body "with a strong mission" - but did not provide an exact timeframe.

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:52:35

MaizieD

I think this might be the actual report:

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Commission-on-the-UKs-Future.pdf

155 pages long. Enjoy...

I should have known you would track it down Maizie. Thank you.

I think it may be this evenings reading though.

DaisyAnne Mon 05-Dec-22 13:55:19

volver he did say that they believe everything could be accomplished in a parliament which I assume means five years.

He didn't say what "everything" (my word) was though. I think that may be a little while coming as the Labour Party decides.

GrannyGravy13 Mon 05-Dec-22 14:20:51

I have listened to Mr Starmer today, the House of Lords does need reforming I agree.

The one thing that caught my ear in a worrying way was the devolving of more powers to local authorities. Is this a get out of jail card for a Labour Government to say it wasn’t me guv it was them ?

volver Mon 05-Dec-22 14:33:04

DaisyAnne

volver he did say that they believe everything could be accomplished in a parliament which I assume means five years.

He didn't say what "everything" (my word) was though. I think that may be a little while coming as the Labour Party decides.

I agree DaisyAnne, but that's not the same as committing, which is what many of the headlines say.

Whitewavemark2 Mon 05-Dec-22 15:19:27

GrannyGravy13

I have listened to Mr Starmer today, the House of Lords does need reforming I agree.

The one thing that caught my ear in a worrying way was the devolving of more powers to local authorities. Is this a get out of jail card for a Labour Government to say it wasn’t me guv it was them ?

I’ll read the report - hopefully later - and get back.

62Granny Mon 05-Dec-22 15:27:11

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

Blossoming Mon 05-Dec-22 15:37:18

Thank you for the useful links Ashcombe

GrannyGravy13 Mon 05-Dec-22 15:37:23

62Granny

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

To hold the Government of the day to account.

hazel93 Mon 05-Dec-22 15:44:14

A second chamber is absolutely needed . A government with a large majority could simply enact any damn thing without any recourse.
I am not in favour of the Lords as it stands but surely we need a body that does actually look at what is being proposed with due diligence before passed onto the statute.

Aveline Mon 05-Dec-22 15:49:59

Good idea to reform the H of Ls. Not going to be quick though. I can just imagine the legal palaver that'll be involved. Get on with it asap.

MaizieD Mon 05-Dec-22 16:35:03

62Granny

If the Lords is being done away with , why is a second chamber needed? I don't see the point of adding another level of government that isn't really needed.

but surely we need a body that does actually look at what is being proposed with due diligence before passed onto the statute.

To be honest, that's what MPs and the parliamentary select committees are supposed to do.

Never, ever confuse 'the government' with Parliament. The 'government', in our constitution, represents the crown, as ruler of the country. Parliament is the law making body, consisting of the Commons and the Lords. It is their job to scrutinise proposed legislation, make amendments they think necessary, and say whether or not it should become law.

Because 'the government' is usually compiled from members of the party which wins the most seats in the Commons, with a commons majority they can 'pass' any legislation they want, regardless of its quality, necessity or effect on the country and its citizens. The second chamber, the Lords, is more broadly balanced in the spread of partisan members and Independents. They are also free to scrutinise and amend legislation and can even hold up its passage (if it doesn't relate to a manifesto item).

At present, our House of Lords is our protection against the excesses of our far right government; the government commons majority is too big and the government has both manipulated the Common's timetable to minimise scrutiny of proposed legislation and bypassed it altogether if it possible can.

That's why we need a second, less partisan, legislative chamber.

Welshwife Mon 05-Dec-22 16:53:30

If it is an elected second chamber who is likely to put themselves forward and how long would they serve? It is a very big thing to change it and needs a lot of thought and consultation.
The Lords may well not be perfect but it is made up of many experienced politicians and once there they can be honest as there is no worry about losing their seats etc. We do see that elected members of the HoC vote and behave in certain ways as they are worried about losing their jobs at the next election.
Not easy to find a good balanced solution.