“Scottish government loses indyref2 court case”

Predictable

So where does it go from here? Is the government likely to give consent or is it the beginning of the end of the SNP? Genuine question, not being goady.

Can this work? Surely if people want to have a referendum it's up to them? I could organise one for my street to say we want a Christmas tree at the end.

Nobody has to abide by the results (I doubt th council would cough up for a tree), but it would be a lot more difficult for Westminster to refuse to acknowledge an overwhelming Yes or Sturgeon to refuse to listen to a No.

I have a lot of connections to Scotland, and don't want to see a split on a personal level. I also think that the UK is better sticking together, particularly as we have isolated ourselves so much with the dreaded Brexit; but if our Scottish friends want to leave I don't see how the government can stop them, short of going back to border wars or something.

Reply from NS.

twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1595360080618307584?s=61&t=VDbfEKuOLo2BUywTrmWyug

I find myself with the First Minister on this one.

The only way another referendum should be allowed would be if everyone in the British Isles was allowed to vote, as it would have an impact on all.
Sturgeon is refusing to listen to a No.

I understand the Scottish Attorney told the Scottish government this was legally a non-runner but Sturgeon went ahead anyway, wasting taxpayers' money. She'll now bleat about democracy because she needs to use independence to keep the SNP united and her voters interested despite her relatively poor record in government. And we have recently seen the Scottish NHS thinking about charging - what on earth are the SNP doing?

What eazybee said.

So what if England decided they wanted an independence referendum? Who would they have to ask for permission?

I am getting really bored with NS. Has she got nothing else to do but pursue this Nationalistic Agenda?

I said what eazybee said on a previous thread and got shot down in flames! It does affect us all.

DH has been reading about the background to indyref2 and says that all the SNP's efforts (and money) have gone into that while things like the NHS have gone down the pan. NS has a bee in her bonnet about independence and seems incapable of thinking about anything else.

And of course Westminster don't want to give us our freedom - for a whole raft of reasons!

WHO do you think votes for the SNP

Theyare the ONLY party with Scotlands interest at heart.
All this proves is what we have said for decades ,Scotland is NOT a partner in this so called union ,we're a colony!
Shame on you unionists who love to see Scotlands people ruled by government in a different country who have no intention of treating us in a democratic fashion
It sickens me that even people on this thread who SAY they are Scots are only happy when WM tells them that " the oil is running out -Denis Healey 1979 ....and every government in WM sinc,happy to peddle the too wee too poor too stupid that Bojo peddled for decades or Ruth Davidsons " Scots dont get invited to posh events in case they steal stuff or break things"
Meanwhile Norway has a massive oil fund ffrom the SAME mount of oil we have....still have trillions worth ....but WM squandered it and we are the only country who discovered oil and got NOTHING except more poverty
We WILL be independent and trust me there are millions like me who WONT sit down or shut up until we do
By the way ,if the EU had said England/UK couldn't leave because it would affect the rest of the EU ....would YOU have sat down and shut up ?

Blondiescot

And of course Westminster don't want to give us our freedom - for a whole raft of reasons!

Personally I think Scotland should be independant, end of problem, no special arrangements, no cherry picking, customs borders as well.
We know how successful Brexit has been, if that’s what they want they should go.

Well, we now know where we stand.

I strongly agree with what Stewart Hosie on Twitter said
"In 2014 Scotland was told it would be an equal partner within the union.
Today's ruling from the Supreme Court has confirmed that Scotland is not an equal 'partner' within the union and denies our democratic right to self-determination"

Our vote does not seem to matter. How can this be democracy?

Absolutely, ptarmigan! Equal partners, my ar*e!

What happened to the "once in a generation" idea?

Although I don’t want Scotland to be an independent country, I’m of the opinion that there should be another referendum to hopefully settle the issue for the foreseeable future. People like me will again hopefully accept a yes majority.
I was at a family meal just days before the last referendum. Of 12 adults able to vote, 11 said they’d be voting no. All but one (myself, born in England but lived in Scotland since the age of four) had been born and lived all their lives in Scotland. The one vote for yes is German by birth and married into the family.
During recent conversations with most of the people mentioned above, the only person to have changed their mind and would change their vote is the one who voted yes the last time. She is thoroughly disappointed in how the Scottish gov. has performed over the last eight years, and is particularly enraged over their determination to pass the GRR bill.
I know this is a tiny sample, but within it, there is both sexes, a wide range of ages and professions/jobs.
Also at that meal eight years ago were three children who are all now in their 20s. Two I know would vote no, the other I haven’t spoken to for a while to ask.

Can we have a referendum for an independent Wessex please?

Joking apart Sturgeon has said that at the next General Election if she gets over 50% of the votes then it will be Scots showing they want Independence. Could be risky.

Well we know where we stand now, don't we? It's tiring to read people on here parroting the same stuff from other threads that has been proven false. The once in a generation was never said in the context of parliament. NHS in Scotland is doing better than elsewhere and SNP have never discussed a two tier system. These are two of the falsehoods being parroted by MSM and repeated here. Why are they so keen to keep Scotland in an unequal relationship? If we are so small, so poor etc, why not another referendum to see what the people of Scotland think now? There are plenty who are regretting voting to leave Europe and asking for a second bite at that cherry. What's the difference?

Bet a few folk assumed I’d started this thread!
😂

Nationalism is a very emotive topic. It’s about ‘feelings’ as much (if not more) than ‘finance’.

The Supreme Court decided in a unanimous vote that Scotland isn’t a colony. It cannot compare itself to Quebec as it tried to do. Nor is it oppressed. It cannot compare itself to Kosovo as it opined.

Scotland was given a vote on independence. Yes, within a few years demographics change but the referendum done then ought to stand for a fair while yet, some say. Others point out that Cameron just about promised Scotland that voting to stay in the Union guaranteed their membership with the EU and we all know how that turned out.

It’s a conundrum for sure. Sturgeon will keep banging the independence drum. She will rail against Westminster. She won’t give up, this much is certain.

The people of Scotland know that a vote for the SNP keeps this topic front and centre so, until they stop voting them in, this is what we all must continue to expect.

Over to you up there really. Good luck from me, whatever you decide. On a personal level, I’m tired of it but it’s not my circus.

eazybee

The only way another referendum should be allowed would be if everyone in the British Isles was allowed to vote, as it would have an impact on all.
Sturgeon is refusing to listen to a No.

I agree with this, maybe English people would like to be an independent country as well. I think a lot of Scots would get a shock at the number of English who would agree with me.
Living in an area of Castles, Pele Towers, Bastille houses and Churches with fortified towers proves what it has been like in the past.
Let's have Border checks at Gretna the number of Scots who work in Carlisle and its environment would have to get up early to join the queue. The A66 would certainly be quieter with not as many lorries using it as a quick route to Stranraer and on to Ireland if they had to park at Gretna to go through checks.
It would be the same on the East of the country all those people who travel to Newcastle to work every day not all go north to Edinborough.
Imagine the money involved on both sides in building such lorry parks and checkpoints with the economy as it is.
Also, the journeys involved to get to a major NHS hospital if you lived north of the border, Carlisle and Newcastle would not be an option, money would have to be found for new hospitals.
I think the English might cry Freedom!

Sorry, but where exactly is Edinborough? Or do you mean Edinburgh, our capital city?

Yammy

eazybee

The only way another referendum should be allowed would be if everyone in the British Isles was allowed to vote, as it would have an impact on all.
Sturgeon is refusing to listen to a No.

I agree with this, maybe English people would like to be an independent country as well. I think a lot of Scots would get a shock at the number of English who would agree with me.
Living in an area of Castles, Pele Towers, Bastille houses and Churches with fortified towers proves what it has been like in the past.
Let's have Border checks at Gretna the number of Scots who work in Carlisle and its environment would have to get up early to join the queue. The A66 would certainly be quieter with not as many lorries using it as a quick route to Stranraer and on to Ireland if they had to park at Gretna to go through checks.
It would be the same on the East of the country all those people who travel to Newcastle to work every day not all go north to Edinborough.
Imagine the money involved on both sides in building such lorry parks and checkpoints with the economy as it is.
Also, the journeys involved to get to a major NHS hospital if you lived north of the border, Carlisle and Newcastle would not be an option, money would have to be found for new hospitals.
I think the English might cry Freedom!

Odd that you can write all that, Yammy when that is just what the UK has done to itself with regard to the EU.

It all adds up to a reasonably convincing argument for the UK staying in the EU but people ignored it and voted to leave. I can't see it being any more convincing for the Scots.

Of course, your scenario would only apply if an independent Scotland rejoined the EU. Until then I'm sure we would just have a Common Travel Area agreement.