What will happen to Conservatism and where will it go from here.

Gawd knows. But we need to be rid of 'em.

In answer to your title
Hopefully join Hancock in the jungle and get lost (fingers crossed)

My local Tory MP - now a junior minister - wrote a book called "Caring Conservatism" and I think he really believed it - poor deluded soul. There is a world of a difference between the definition of conservative as an adjective and what the party that has borrowed the name stands for.

Out of interest, is Michael Oakeshott the ex husband of Isobel, who went off with the UKIP guy?

Fleurpepper

Out of interest, is Michael Oakeshott the ex husband of Isobel, who went off with the UKIP guy?

I doubt it! He died in 1990, age 89.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oakeshott

Wiki reckons they're related, but doesn't give any details.

BlueBelle

In answer to your title
Hopefully join Hancock in the jungle and get lost (fingers crossed)

Where in the title, BlueBelle?

I think there is/was a kind of benevolent patriarchal conservatism, where people knew their place, but it was right to look after the "poor and needy" based on the old style economy, fairly full employment, big national industry, local communities functioned as such, Rotary Clubs, that sort of thing. That's the mage in my mind of "Caring Conservatism"

But social conditions have changed beyond recognition, we have social media, international control of many resources, demands for equality where there were not them before, and so on.

Probably a period out of power could bring more clarity, but maybe not. Because there will always be tensions between moderates and the right, the need to placate more far right views. We've seen the rise in the further right across parts of Europe, and what is happening in the USA at the moment with groups like QAnon, and I'm not optimistic.

I think that Thatcher did away with what we might consider to be 'traditional' Conservatism (or was it just the postwar consensus?). Unless you count taking us back to the 19th C as being 'conservative'. She was quite revolutionary with her destruction of nationalised industries and war with the workers.

I'd see 'traditional' conservatism as much more centrist than she and her successors were. What we have now doesn't seem to be conservatism in any shape or form. I hope they obliterate themselves because they aren't at all nice...

Like her or love her, I think Thatcher was an idealogue. I think she believed very strongly that what she was doing was right for the country.

I don't think there's been a consistent ideology in the last 12 years of Conservatism. Cameron and Johnson were socially quite liberal and, I think, just let others do the work so they stayed in power. IMO May was more how many people imagine Conservatives, although she was out of her depth. She would probably have been fine as a local council leader. She tried too hard to appease and didn't watch her back.

Truss was a puppet. Goodness knows what she really believes. Sunak is a new breed of Conservative. I think he's going to struggle to last the course. He's another puppet and is PM as a result of political shenanigans, orchestrated by the ERG.

It seems that the "New Conservatism" is about conserving privilege for a small minority and using any means to dispose of people who might challenge them, even if those people are more talented and experienced. They're not even trying to appeal to the voting public or do the best for the country as a whole. The only weapons they have are immigrants, Corbyn and "wokeness", which will keep a few people onside, but I don't believe anywhere near the majority are fooled.

I do actually believe that the majority of Conservative voters are basically decent people, even if I disagree strongly with their views and methods. Nevertheless, I think we share a wish to live in a strong country. Current polling would suggest that there's a big mismatch between the current Conservative government and traditional Conservative voters.

They’ve become the Brexit Party. When that appeal crumbles, this current bunch haven’t much left.

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.

vegansrock

They’ve become the Brexit Party. When that appeal crumbles, this current bunch haven’t much left.

I think it's more than Brexit. They've replaced UKIP.

I’m not sure that it’s ‘they’ as in all Tory MPs. There’s a growing divide in the party for sure and a right wing dominance currently, but there are still many old school Tories there. The next few years will be very interesting, but I don’t think the majority of the country will back a right wing agenda again, so if they don’t change they will be in the wilderness.

They’ve become the Brexit Party. When that appeal crumbles, this current bunch haven’t much left.

Agreed Vegansrock. And I’ve noticed that the ‘success’ of Brexit is being challenged far more openly now, so the appeal is starting to crumble. Commentators, analysts and media are now questioning its efficacy (or lack of) and the former Brexiteer chants of ‘remoaner’ are loosing their impact. It’s clear for all to see that Brexit isn’t working; it has put the UK at an economic disadvantage; it was based on lies. Hopefully it will be the ‘nail in the coffin’ of the Tory party - but at what expense to the country!

Not sure about whether the Conservatives will survive but the difference I notice from my childhood half a century ago to now is that there is much more of a vox populi and, whilst it is great that people have a voice, sometimes the overarching decision making is lost in the detail of everyone having their say. Also, what of the future of the planet. It is all very well a society pushing for ever better and upward mobility for its people, but by the very laws of nature, it is unsustainable.

NotSpaghetti

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.

That has felt like a small move back towards democracy NotSpaghetti but then you hear of journalists here being arrested and held when covering a demonstration. That made my heart sink

I do wonder if the move to extremes is more to do with changes in our social structure than our traditional views of politics. Does increased education lead people to think they "know" more than our parents and grandparents thought they did? I include the politicians themselves in that thought.

NotSpaghetti

Wyllow3 - the good news is that so far the mid-terms have been less disastrous than anticipated and the "deniers" loyal to Trump have had few wins. I'm hoping the Trump (and Johnson) fake information is at last being seen trough. I'm hoping that the balance is tipping slightly more towards reality. I suppose I'm more optimistic than I was two days ago.

Yes, agree, it's a turn out for sanity never mind political differences. Nevertheless the democrats will find their hands tied just as the last years of the Obama regime because of losses in the Houses.

We have to hope that the Republicans do not gain control. If they do the likelihood is America's sending arms to Ukraine will stop. Many of them admire Putin and apparently, had Trump still been president, Putin would not have invaded Ukraine.

In Brazil supporters of Bolsonaro still believe that the election was rigged.

The president of Israel Isaac Herzog has said “the whole world is worried” about the far-right views of Itamar Ben-Gvir, who appears set to become a minister in Benjamin Netanyahu’s new coalition government.

The extreme right seems to be spreading the world over. In the UK it behoves those voters where the current MP is a member of the ERG to ensure that person is voted out at the next election. Unfortunately it may be difficult to identify them all.

The way I see it the Conservatives will be in the wilderness for a few years and Keir Starmer's party will take their place.

Several of the more moderate Conservative MPs will have defected to Keir Starmer's party and will be promoted to Government positions. (Christian Wakeford who crossed the floor from the Tories to Labour has already been appointed a Labour whip, a sign of things to come)

My personal hope is that a new left leaning party will take the place of Keir Starmer's party by being an opposition to the current culture of austerity and attempt to make the country a fairer, and therefore more prosperous country for all its citizens.

Ilovecheese

The way I see it the Conservatives will be in the wilderness for a few years and Keir Starmer's party will take their place.

Several of the more moderate Conservative MPs will have defected to Keir Starmer's party and will be promoted to Government positions. (Christian Wakeford who crossed the floor from the Tories to Labour has already been appointed a Labour whip, a sign of things to come)

My personal hope is that a new left leaning party will take the place of Keir Starmer's party by being an opposition to the current culture of austerity and attempt to make the country a fairer, and therefore more prosperous country for all its citizens.

You mean the Labour Party will be in power Ilovecheese. It’s not Keir Starmer’s party, he’s the leader because the membership voted for him. I too hope the left will form their own party, but it won’t be the Labour Party - and they won’t be elected in my opinion, because whether we like it or not, the electorate is not left leaning enough to elect them.

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

Katie59

Politics seems to be polarizing just like the US, the right wing holding the Tories in their grip and very likely the left wing Labour. Unless there is a miracle Labour will win the next GE, that does not mean the ERG will go away, they will bide their time until the next opportunity. It doesnt take a large group to hold the leader to ransome

Labour is doing it's best to disassociate itself from the 'left wing'. Though as people seem to differ wildly over what they think constitutes 'left wing' it's hard to tell just where it is at the moment.

I assume by your use of the word 'miracle', Katie59, that you don't really want to see a Labour party in power?

I think that, unless the tories come up with a radical change of plan for the economy. they will be wiped out at the next GE and a great many of the ERG group will lose their seats.

I hope that Labour will carry out their promise to reform the House of Lords and get rid of many of Johnson's corrupt crony appointments.

It is utterly ridiculous that there are more peers in parliament than there are MPs. The Labour party's reform of the Lords in the 1990s was meant to reduce the size of the HoL. The rapid turnover of tory PMs in the last 6 years has also meant that they've been able to pack the Lords with tory supporters and increase its size.

The huge worry, is very Conservatism will mute into alt right.

And as Labour turns away from hard left, we will probably end up with some centre left coalition- which is the very best thing we can hope for.