Are you woke?

I'm awake, if that helps?!

Ps I should go and practise some mindfulness too, stroking the bark of my tree, but it's too wet and windy out there.

Ps could it be to do with the packaging rather than the contents?

lizzypopbottle

I am woke but may not be come 9 o'clock when I might nod off for a couple of minutes. That means I will be woke and worrying about such things until 2 am.

I am not asking vegans as a group to justify what they eat. But quite a number of vegans on GN see veganism as a moral issue and castigate those who do not agree with them.

In those circumstances it seems quite reasonable to expect proslytising vegans to have considered all the problems that adapting a vegan diet could cause those with allergy and other problems and also other issues that will arise from adopting a vegan lifestyle.

My God daughter is vegan. It is a personal decision that we all respect. Were she to be constantly trying to get everyone round her to become vegans and criticising those who are not, then it would be a very different matter and she should then expect to be asked about the problems that choosing to be vegan would cause some people - and be able to answer them.

Other people following other diets are similarly questioned by vegans and there are quite a number of us who have addressed these issues. Dare I say 'sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander'?

Why must vegans address the concerns of non-vegans with allergies, though? I'm not being confrontational - I'm not even vegan! - but unless you are talking about evangelical vegans (aka pains in the proverbial) then they won't be interested in what other people eat.

As GillT57 points out, it is vegans who have to put up with constant questioning of their choices, and are expected to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of ecosystems, dietary food groups and carbon footprints. If they get a question wrong, they are assumed to be hypocrites.

I find that all very strange, as people following other diets aren't put through this. Not all vegans are of the rather tired and cliched 'they tell you' stereotype. They have just chosen a lifestyle that is a little outside of the norm.

I am curious as to why non-vegans expect vegans to justify what they do/don't eat.

Iam64 It is a question I have asked a number of times, because, while there are those who are lactose intolerant and have some problems with fish and eggs, the majority of food allergies are fruit, veg, nut, soya and grain based.

If veganism is the way forward then its supporters must address the issue of those with extensive allergies to these non-meat foods and how they can possible have an interesting and fully nutritious diet, when so much of the key protein, and mineral and vitamin providing foods, must be excluded from their diet.

For my family and many others with members with food allergies, animal foods are essential for good balanced nutritian.

As I said, I have asked this question before, but every time they see it, all the vegans on GN head for the hills.

MOnica, I understand your concerns. I'm not dedicated enough to become a vegetarian, much less a vegan. I have a close friend who became vegan several years ago. His physical and mental health are significantly improved. His diet seems varied and interesting. I can't imagine a vegan baby but maybe I'm being to traditional and judgemental

I am still waiting for a Vegan to tell me how you could have a varied and nutritious vegan diet if you are allergic to soya, all nuts and fresh fruit?

This is the situation of one member of my family who has developed these allergies, and carries an epipen, since being diagnosed with an auto immune disease.

As far as I can see it would be an endless diet of beans and pulses. At least as an omnivore she can eat dairy products in their many forms and meat and fish likewise.

Attended a meeting in London yesterday - everyone round the table was invited to say which pronouns they wanted people to use for them : she/her or they/them. I think I'm too old for real life now!

DOODLEDOG I refer you to your 10.06am post yesterday "it is good for the planet if some of us do it" does your niece constantly tell you this. I have no problems with vegans who choose their lifestyle but take exception to being preached at and judged by oftan mis informed zealots. This is something my granddaughter does not do and along with many of her vegan friends totally disapproves of. It is woke gone crazy.
No, she doesn't constantly tell me anything. As I have said, it is others who keep expecting her to justify her lifestyle. I have never said she is a zealot or that she preaches - whatever gave you that idea?

Heard a joke the other day, as she ducks under the table...... "How do you know someone is a Vegan? They bloody tell you!"

Anniel. Thank you for your post. I had seen something about this debate but hadn’t really taken it in. The points you say Fox made sound right to me. Nobody can choose their birth. And it is wrong to shut down debate because of who a speaker is rather than arguing against what they are saying. But also if you are white or a man or are young or able-bodied or many other helpful things you cannot understand what it is like not to be in this position out of your own experience. Therefore you have to listen to other people with respect to gain understanding yourself.

My husband’s step brother is vegan. I described it as “political”. I was reaching for the idea that it was for more than health reasons. His wife said to me. “It is spiritual”. That struck me. It seems right in many ways. There must be cruelty in eating meat. But it is a cruelty that exists in the world among animals other than humans too. Another person I know follows it most of the time for ecological rather than spiritual reasons. That also seems worthwhile. But veganism is not something I feel I am able to do.

I thought that the word “woke” had come from African Americans. But I didn’t know it was from the sixties. Perhaps only coming here now because it has spread into white America and onto the internet. I like the word. I felt when I became a feminist in the seventies that I had woken up to things that had always been there and that were limiting my opportunities but that I hadn’t understood or been aware of before. There were no words to express it. It felt like my eyes had been opened. The sixties was a great decade for civil rights for black people in the USA so it makes sense that the word comes from then. Words like this are useful shorthand. Sexism didn’t exist in my Oxford English Dictionary in the sixties. But what a useful word it is. I wonder if “woke” has been taken away from black Americans and from its original meaning which must have been about anti-racism. But that a word spreads shows a sort of cultural power. And black Americans have offered so much to the world. Though I wish there had not been the suffering that creates the awareness and the resistance.

DOODLEDOG I refer you to your 10.06am post yesterday "it is good for the planet if some of us do it" does your niece constantly tell you this. I have no problems with vegans who choose their lifestyle but take exception to being preached at and judged by oftan mis informed zealots. This is something my granddaughter does not do and along with many of her vegan friends totally disapproves of. It is woke gone crazy.

Mommawolf It probably isn't. As with so many things, it is impossible to be 100% virtuous, and unless your granddaughter is constantly telling you how she is saving the planet, then so what? I don't suppose that any diet is carbon-neutral.

I assumed that "woke" was an ungrammatical expression meaning enlightened or aware of important things. Is that correct? I have a feeling that the use of woke may have come from " the streets" among the educationally deprived or is it a fake use to attract youngsters?

DOODLEDOG I have a GD who is vegan we all accept it as her lifestyle choice however watching her cook seems to involve a great many ingredients that are grown overseas eg soya which is grown in cleared land in the rainforest then shipped or airmiled to the uk HOW is this good for the ?

Don’t they have eggs in doughnuts? Never made any so don’t know but if they have eggs or milk the are not vegan.

The Woke debate was stirred up recently on Question Time when the panel was made up of Journalist from the DT, a ScotsNat MP a young Conservative female Minister for Culture, Baroness Chakrabati and actor Laurence Fox. As it was from my home city of Liverpool I expected a lively debate.
Lauence Fox is not “woke” and reacted to a audience member ( a plant as later reported) who told Mr Fox that he could not possibly understand racial prejudice as he was a white, privileged male. He was not amused and made a solid argument that he had no say in how he was born but he was against accusing people of racism, sexism etc. purely to close down argument. The audience gave him a great reception and the look on Baroness Chakrabati’s face was worth watching!

I am sure we are all aware of 5he dangers of racism, sexism and other social ills, but I hate being lectured on such matters by this group of women people who see offence where none is intended.

If you are vegan, then you (generic) will want to know if products are suitable for you to use/eat/buy. If you are not, then why worry?

It is five letters on a label - I honestly can't see why people get so worked up about it.

I always buy these products because they work and are so cheap, didn't know they were vegan!!

The word Vegan is very much overused,

Vegan this and vegan that.
I’m fed up hearing and reading how just about everything is Vegan!.
Agree with Chewbacca.

I saw a mention of ‘woke’ through the ages. Before we were woke, we were politically correct and before we were politically correct we were polite.