The strikes seem detrimental to so many people

The strikes are not just for more pay.

For example, the ambulance strikes are also about staffing levels which as we know are abysmal.

Most strikes have elements in them abut working conditions and the nature of the contracts being offered

I think it's important not to lump them altogether but be specific.

Which group do you think shouldn't strike?

Yes, namo and the additional increase in prices to fund the pay rises won’t help those who can’t strike and will affect even those who do. It’s a vicious circle.
But what else can they do?

Most staff dont strike because they want to but because they too are struggling financially, they lose pay while trying to improve things.

I’m not sure how effective strikes are. Royal Mail workers who can ‘afford’ to (just about) go on strike now face losing their jobs as Royal Mail axe thousands of jobs and cut Saturday mail deliveries, thus making them less competitive than other couriers who pay peanuts to their self employed staff. A vicious downward spiral. Then we remember thousands of pounds spent on changing the name to consignor until they realised Royal Mail was the best name ever and changed back.

Most strikes for pay are not effective, in that a pay increase comes at the cost of staffing cutbacks and imposed 'conditions' of extra duties and responsibilities. The increase in pay is quickly eroded by the rise in the cost of living, as is happening now.

I received post yesterday in spite of the strike, and when I mentioned this to a local post office friend I was told that some of the postmen/women simply can't afford to strike.

Strikes are not just about pay. They're about working conditions too.

Do we remember that the NHS shouldered the huge burden of covid recently?

If the government grabbed back the fraudulently awarded pandemic money, they'd be able to afford to pay NHS staff.

Who is worth more to the well-being of the UK? Michelle Mone or the NHS?

Not everyone will strike. They might not be in the union so can't strike. There are people who are opposed to strikes. And yes, of course, some people can't afford to lose a day's pay.

Strikes are not just about pay. They're about working conditions too.

True.
Listening to the paramedics and other professions explaining about their workload you can understand their strike better.

25Avalon I’ve thought that about Royal Mail too.

namo

The strikes are for more pay. But a lot of people are struggling financially who can’t strike. What about them? The strikes are making it more difficult for small businesses to survive; for people to carry on life to support their families. It’s badly affecting lives in so many ways.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, really. How does the fact that not everyone can strike mean that those who can shouldn't? If everyone went on strike the inconvenience would be total - is that what you are arguing for?

In some ways a concerted general strike might be a tipping point. The argument that companies 'can't afford' to pay decent wages when they earn ££££ for shareholders/directors would have to be reconsidered, and may result in a fairer society. It would require real solidarity and pulling together though, and the efforts from on high to turn us all against one another would be greater than we've seen them make to 'level up'.

Nobody goes on strike without so much thought, somany broken down talks, and with much discussion and a ballot. It is very much the last resort.
Many strikes are onlypartially to do with pay, often more to do with safety inthe workpalce bothj for workers and user, (eg the current rail strikes),
The strikes taking place now this winter are not caused by the Unions or the Workers but totally by government policies over the past many years.
Nurses, for example, are so very much worse off now than they were ten years ago. This has also been part of cause for such a lot leaving this profession (will not also mention to B word), staffing levels are so veryu low that not only are the patients are serious risk, but so is the health of the nurses.

namo
You’ve obviously never been shat on by a bad company / boss.

I’m sick to death of every media outlet spouting the 19% the nurses want.
That figure is very emotive. Perhaps if they said what the nurses earn and what they want it might make people think differently.

25Avalon

I’m not sure how effective strikes are. Royal Mail workers who can ‘afford’ to (just about) go on strike now face losing their jobs as Royal Mail axe thousands of jobs and cut Saturday mail deliveries, thus making them less competitive than other couriers who pay peanuts to their self employed staff. A vicious downward spiral. Then we remember thousands of pounds spent on changing the name to consignor until they realised Royal Mail was the best name ever and changed back.

I,m afraid that I can't accept the 'race to the bottom' argument for not paying people properly.

The distribution of wealth in the UK is like an inverted pyramid, with workers at the bottom. It's as though the country's wealth is being sucked upward, with the Royal Mail being one of the 'suckers. The 'suckers' make very large profits, which come out of the pockets of us, the people who hand over their money to buy their goods and services, then they hand their profits over to their top executives and shareholders, crying 'poverty' when the workers who actually make their goods and services earn the profit, ask for a fair share of the rewards of their work.

The people who acquire this money are the least likely to spend much into the economy, because they have much of what they want or need anyway. It's the people at the bottom who spend any extra money they earn.

Of course, the less people are paid, the less they'll be able to buy the goods and services their employers are offering, so profits will diminish anyway.

It really doesn't make any sense to me.

Perhaps it does to others and they can explain how keeping workers very poor helps company profits in the long run if all companies are working on the same principles.

I get so fed up when people persist in bringing in how much strikers are paid. They did it with the miners, and now they are doing it with the train drivers, as examples of people on decent pay who want to keep the pay and conditions they fought for. The suggestion seems to be that it is only ok to want to maintain pay and conditions if you are on minimum wage in a race to the bottom, unless they are suggesting that everyone be paid the same, regardless of conditions, hours worked, qualifications and training etc.

I'm guessing not, though, as IME most of the people doing this are objecting either because they don't understand why someone they see as less deserving than they are is earning more than they do, or because they think that it is their own superior qualifications, training and so on that justify their earning more. In either event, they seem to have no idea of what it's like to work in those roles. If they are so convinced that it would be a walk in the park they could always give it a go.

Sorry - that was a bit of a rant, but I'm pleased I've got it off my chest

MerylStreep

I’m sick to death of every media outlet spouting the 19% the nurses want.
That figure is very emotive. Perhaps if they said what the nurses earn and what they want it might make people think differently.

I think a lot of people would be glad to earn an average of £35k and wouldn't need to use food banks on that amount.

Lyng17

MerylStreep

I’m sick to death of every media outlet spouting the 19% the nurses want.
That figure is very emotive. Perhaps if they said what the nurses earn and what they want it might make people think differently.

I think a lot of people would be glad to earn an average of £35k and wouldn't need to use food banks on that amount.

You have exaggerated the average earnings of nurses, and are out of touch with average earnings for the UK.

‘Average annual earnings for full-time employees in the UK 2022, by region. The average annual salary for full-time workers in London in 2022 was 41,866 British pounds a year, compared with 29,521 pounds for workers in North East of England, which was the lowest in the United Kingdom in 2022.26 Oct 2022’
www.statista.com › statistics

Why don’t those people who begrudge the nurses pay demand all get degrees by training to be nurses, and work shifts, nights, weekends in a highly pressured clinical environment if they think nurses are better off?

Lyng17

MerylStreep

I’m sick to death of every media outlet spouting the 19% the nurses want.
That figure is very emotive. Perhaps if they said what the nurses earn and what they want it might make people think differently.

I think a lot of people would be glad to earn an average of £35k and wouldn't need to use food banks on that amount.

... then those people can go and train to become a nurse. And accept the debt that goes with it.

Experienced staff have had years of real terms pay cuts and they are leaving the profession because of it. In August this year the NHS vacancy rate was over 59% higher than pre-pandemic levels.

... perhaps the job isn't so attractive after all? Nurses certainly don't take up the profession to get rich.

I don’t want the nurse who might look after me if I end up in hospital to be stressed, worrying about paying the heating bill or feeding her family. I want her or him to feel pride and satisfaction in their work.

I don’t want my grandchildren’s teacher to be tired from struggling to make ends meet, marking work at all hours in a cold house.

I don’t want our rail service to collapse because there are insufficient drivers, conductors, etc because they have left for better pay and conditions elsewhere.,

There are reasons that all our public services and public servants are in disarray and it’s 12 years of mismanagement, Brexit, Covid, underfunding and this pathetic government.

GO

Our NHS is on its knees. We need to do what it takes to keep it going and help it improve.

We don't need multimillionaire government ministers. We do need doctor, nurses, GPs.

Quokka

I don’t want the nurse who might look after me if I end up in hospital to be stressed, worrying about paying the heating bill or feeding her family. I want her or him to feel pride and satisfaction in their work.

I don’t want my grandchildren’s teacher to be tired from struggling to make ends meet, marking work at all hours in a cold house.

I don’t want our rail service to collapse because there are insufficient drivers, conductors, etc because they have left for better pay and conditions elsewhere.,

There are reasons that all our public services and public servants are in disarray and it’s 12 years of mismanagement, Brexit, Covid, underfunding and this pathetic government.

GO

same

Yes, the workers that are striking are very important to the economy, livelihoods, and lives of many people. Best we support them, so they continue to be so.

Well said, Siope

They’ll get a pay rise at the expense of casuals, as usual. They will have more work to do with less other staff to call on. Always the case, sadly. The fat cats win out again.